A Witty Title.

I would say it is better to be too willing to put yourself out for someone than not willing enough.

I've alway tried to work on the principle that i should be a friend to someone even if they are not a friend back. But people do take advantage of it which, i guess, means there has to be a limit somewhere. Sometimes it works out and the person changes, other times you just have to give up cause you arent strong enough to keep going with it.
 

Completly agree... but where is that point... obviously it is before you start to make yourself sick with stress and worry.. but how can you detect that before it happens...
 

It's a tough issue because there needs to be a balance between looking after yourself and looking after others. After all, you aren't going to be much use to other people if you get too exhausted and run down. In the long run, it's better to be the person who is taken advantage of rather than the person who takes the advantage - sacrificial love, turning the other cheek and all that.

It's a tricky balance to hold, though. I don't think there is an answer. Maybe just try to listen to yourself (not easy) and make sure your own needs are being met.
 

I think part of it is understanding what your needs are. Not your wants, but needs. I think it is possible to look after your own needs and look after others needs at the same time. Sacrificing your needs for someone's wants is not the way to go though.
Kind of like Lara said.
Also, read my post if you havent!
 

Oh, the other thing I wanted to say was that there is a really good book on stuff like this called "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend. It's well worth a read.
 

I've been meaning to read 'Boundaries'. At our church's young adults camp last year the speaker presented some material on relationships from a psychologist/counsellor called Larry Crabb (I think that was his name). One of the things he said that really stayed with me was that we can't be responsible for what other people think of us, only what God thinks of us. That is, we shouldn't be trying to please other people - just God. That's kind of off topic, but related a little, I guess...
 

I read your post stu, and its what got me thinking...

I guess what im trying to say here is, like your post said...

"An important concept in life comes in here. The concept of boundaries. We need to understand what our needs are and make sure that we don’t kill ourselves trying to satisfy the needs of others. Needs that may actually only be wants. See vs. 4. We should look to others interests, as well as our own. We have interests too and they are important."

But where are these boundaries. Where is it that we draw the line and so no to people. Ive hurt friends in the past by doing this. How do you know when to stop and say, "enough. I need to think about me now."


The book sounds like it might be usefull.. Do you have a copy?

Yeah lara, that is quite related and usefull... I have always found it helpfull to live by a principle of, Im responsible for my actions. And Im accountable. To me. To god. But not to anyone else. Do I really care if my friends think im in the wrong? only when im not sure myself if I am.

There is a catch however. If you live like that, you need to be constantly examining your motives. The path to the dark side lies that way. If you dont care what others think because your convinced your better than them. That your opinions matter more. That you are in fact perfect. Thats the path you are heading down. Having god as well as(instead of?) yourself to be accountable to seems to be a good solution there. And to be constantly examining your motives, thoughts and impressions.
 

I think there is a reason to care if the vast majority of your friends think what you're doing is wrong. We're meant to keep each other accountable for our actions. Just because you don't like hearing what someone has to say about what you've been doing doesn't mean they're wrong. It's exceedingly easy to self-justify actions and convince yourself that what you did was the only proper response. It's something to be careful of.

By the by, thanks for you prayers and stuff. I'm better and got my new work contract finally. :)
 

As for the book, I borrowed it off Shaggy. As for what I mean by what I have said: Instead of calling up the people that always get called up, and spending all your efforts on the people everyone seems to spend their time on, look around for the people who do not get called or invited to stuff as much or seem to not have many people talking to them at church and focus your time and effort on them and not on the 'popular' people.
I suppose I was referring to the kind of 'one way street' relationships that can turn up sometimes. If they do turn up, dont focus your energy on those people, spend your time and effort on people who will reciprocate your friendship. This is how you are able to look after yourself as well as others.
 

Saru:

Sometimes however the vast majority of your friends will think what your doing is wrong.. and be wrong about it.

Yes listen to them.. consider what they say.. but remember that the ultimate authority and responsibility lies with god and you respectivly.

Listen with an attitude that means you will be willing to hear, and to change, not just to defend yourself. With an open mind.


Stu:

Ok but what about the one way streets who dont have anyone else supporting them. People who drain a lot and dont give much back. If you dont care for them, and noone else is, then they are isolated completly.
 

I believe the people you speak of are the exception to what I am saying, not the rule. There is also a definitely important place for just plain looking after people. That is what we should do. The one-way-streets that have no one looking after them need people looking after them in humility, just like Jesus did. We should do that expecting nothing in return.
 

So how then do you balance looking after these needy people, where you will be getting nothing in return, with looking after your own wellbeing.

How do you react when you discover that your spending so much time looking after others that you dont have the time to look after yourself?
 

Well, eventually you will not be in a state to look after anyone and then what good will you be? Looking after yourself is not selfish. It is ensuring that you are able to keep doing things and looking after people. It is important to think about these things over the long term.
 

Completly agree.. I guess im asking where/how do you draw that line?
 

The absolte last place you can draw the line is when your relationship with God begins to suffer because you are doing too much. Whether it is because you dont have the time for your own Bible study / prayer time, or because the people you are trying to help lead you astray, it is simply not worth it. Your own relationship with God has to come first.
 

Hey-o.

Just wanted to add something to what others were saying, though some of this stuff has been said already.

Firstly, looking after yourself is not selfishness. It's vital. If you don't look after yourself then you won't be in a position to be there for anyone else. Look at the position you are in now. You are too tired and stressed to help out with others because you've been focusing on their needs over your own. You need to look out for yourself and, if you find yourself in a fix, ask others for support. After all, that's what we're here for (among other things, of course.)

Secondly, I want to remind you of something Tim said last year (maybe the year before) during all those role-playing... uh... issues. He talked about the tendency of people in the group to steal "gold coins" from people, lowering other people's feelings of self worth etc to booster their own. It seems to me that maybe this relates to the discussion about people who take without giving in return. Everyone is guilty of this at one time or another. All people sometimes find themselves in a position where they are (or feel) incapable of giving. The important thing is to be aware of this, whichever side you are on in such a situation. You can't let people take from you more than you have to give (this is where taking care of yourself comes in), and you have to try to not take more than others have to give. I feel that everyone has this responsibility, both to themselves and to others.

As for finding a balance, in the end, no one can do that for you. You need to work out how much you are capable of giving without running yourself into the ground.

Two other things. Firstly, in response to questions about the most important of the commandments, Christ says: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your mind and all your soul. This is the great and first commandment and the second is like it: "Love your neighbour as you love yourself. Upon these two hang all the law and the prophets." So, first of all (as Jen pointed out), don't let your relationships with others distract you from loving God, the most important thing in your life as a christian. Second, Christ says to love others as much as you love yourself. Not more, as much as. God wants you to look after yourself.

Finally, regarding people who come to expect the level of support you give and get angry or upset when they find you can't maintain it, right there with you. And it will happen. In the end, your friends will have to get used to it. And, if they are your friends, they will, because they should be supporting you back. That's what friendship means. There needs to be give and take for a relationship to survive.

Sorry this is so long but I hope it helps. Remember I love ya heaps. And, more importantly, so does God. I'm here for you if you need to chat.
 

I have this to say on drawing the line:

It's about your perceptions of the quality of your life. If it reaches the point where extending yourself to others is making you question your life at the time (signficantly noticable by the fact you often get depressed around then), then it's time to pull some of your energies back to yourself.

As they taught me in the First Aid course: "Look to your casualty." We have inate natural ways of handling ourselves that kick in when we are suffering. Often we will over intellectualise and disregard this low level reactions, but we really shouldn't. Consider getting hit really hard in the stomach. The body's reaction is to curl over doubled. There are a number of reasons why this is the best position for the body to be in after taking that sort of injury. Recognising these reactions and acting with them is important. We've got excellent survival instincts, and they should be used.

This applies as much to our mental and emotional states as our physical. So look at what your heart and mind are telling you. If you feel stressed, depressed, or are noticing other signs that indicate internal difficulty, then start shift a little more focus onto your needs untill you feel ok.
 

Firstly HELLO to those of you I know and those of you I don't.

As this is my first comment within Matt's blog, I'll keep it brief (even if it is a little late). To be honest Matt, I understand completely where your coming from in this regard. I myself generally try to go out of my way to help people (maybe not in a spiritual sense) in any way I can, wether it be just to listen to problems, or to head over and do minor repairs on their computer systems or such.

What I tend to find with people I know however, is they don't realise how often you are helping OTHER people, other than themselves that is. It's not unusual for me to be rung on my mobile upward of five to six times a day. This isn't because I'm popular, it's generally to do with the fact that if people call me, and require some help, I generally don't turn them down. To be honest if I have work commitments or such I'm not afraid to say no and most people understand.

It's the people that don't understand that sort of irritate me and I'll be sure to post more on this on my own blog in the coming days (kinda short on time as I have to do an exam in an hour and a half).

I don't let myself be treated in the way you describe, and my self esteem and confidence etc is fine. I just don't like to disappoint people mainly. As I've said though, people just don't understand that they're not the only ones ringing you for help, and sometimes it just gets really hard when you get stretched too thin.

There's been many a time where Chrystal's told me to take a break from it, and now I take her advice and switch off the phone, or make myself scarce for a day during the week or month. It works for me, it's that alone part you were talking about, and the effort required really isn't that much to get it.

I've experienced burn out from my previous job managing, we're so young and there is so much more to our own lives that we should take the time to explore our own interests.

Just my thoughts on the matter.